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July 13, 2007
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:iconsethness:
evolution: putting the "win" in Darwin since 3,500,000,000 B.C.


----
EDIT, September 2008:
DeviantArt's licensing and popularity have a positive impact:
I permit commercial uses of this image and wording, as long as they're not altered. I like this image and the philosophy behind it, so I don't mind if others make a profit while popularizing it.

I'm pleased to announce that this doodle is now available for sale as a T-SHIRT at eBay [link]
being sold by an eBay eStore called "Tshirtbooth". w00t!!

It's also available at Zazzle, and in the DeviantArt print shop, on stuff like mousepads, cretionists' foreheads (printed in reverse, so the slow-witted cretins can read them by looking in a mirror) and coffee mugs.

Surprisingly, at least two people have had this design TATTOOED on their bodies! I say "surprisingly", because they're not tattooing the southern part of their anatomy which they'd like Creationists to kiss. They've surprisingly tattooed their arms instead. Presumably their posteriors are already covered by large lip-shaped targets. Or hickies. Whatever. I digress.
:icon:
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:iconsteeljren:
*Steeljren Feb 12, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
This is yours? Awesome! Just found it via a news article on Darwin Day ([link]) and it still makes me laugh. Great concept, lovely slogan.
Reply
:iconsethness:
Oh. My. Goodness. (I want to say "OMG" without the obvious hypocrisy that phrase would carry.)

This is a new high for me. The article Steeljren refers to is in "Der Spiegel", which for many decades has been the "Life Magazine" or "Time Magazine" of Germany. The article is in their science ("wissenschaft") section, and my illustration is both the lead illustration and the inspiration for the article's title, Fish devours Fish ("Fisch frisst Fisch").

The article is about a celebration of Darwin's 203 birthday, and how Darwin's theory of evolution, the darwinfish, and even the Flying Spaghetti Monster have become important symbols of science over faith-based thinking.

Pardon me while my chest swells with pride, and a few shirtbuttons rocket away as the strain on shirt thread makes them go *pinnnng*.

Hooray for our side.

On a selfish note, I hope I can reach this height again with my art. I love the fact that my hand can and did express the thoughts and pride of the scientific community I idolize.

--
~AtheistsClub ~brights #M-C-Escher-Style #Surreal-Artists
Doubt and objectivity are essential. Without them, experience merely reinforces prejudice. Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Give a man an Icthys, and he annoys for life.
Reply
:iconswaneejuggalo:
Thank you for such a awesome image and for commercial use at that! I'm going to attempt to make some decals from it.

--
Proud member of Team CoCo
Reply
:iconsethness:
For personal use, or for commercial sale?

If for personal use, please send me a photo of the decal(s) in place. I'd love to see it & re-post it on my website. w00t :-D

If for commercial sale, post a photo + link here to the right page on your sales site please, so we can buy 'em that much more easily. :-)

--
~AtheistsClub ~brights #M-C-Escher-Style #Surreal-Artists
Doubt and objectivity are essential. Without them, experience merely reinforces prejudice. Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Give a man an Icthys, and he annoys for life.
Reply
:iconobsadiensoul:
this is funny. I enjoy your pic lol :) good job.
Reply
:iconellakey:
*EllaKey Dec 5, 2011  Hobbyist Writer
Evolution neither proves nor disproves Christianity. The creation week in Genesis is one of the minor doctrines in Christianity that we do not all agree on. Some believe in seven literal days; others believe that the term "day" could've been mistranslated. Either of these cases could prove true and neither detracts from the rest of the book or Christ's teachings.
Now, on to evolution itself. There are two types of evolution, macro and micro. In this case I think you were referring to macroevolution, correct? Where one species will change to another? Well, scientifically, this has not been proven, correct? It's not a fundamental law, like natural selection or genetic diversity. In fact, it goes against the laws of nature that have already been established. Mutations cut down or change the amount of information in the offspring of any two organisms. There is no increase in complexity, which is what is required to change a chimp to a man.
Also, an interesting note is that Darwin did not use the term "evolution" in his first copy of The Origin of Species. That means nothing. It's just a fun fact.
I haven't looked through your comments to see if you've gotten this already, so I apologize for duplicating information. Thank you in advance for letting me comment and if you or anyone else replies in a decent manner, then I would love to discuss my theories and beliefs at length.

--
My icon was a point commission from *Darqx.
"I'm a supporter of date extensions regardless of context." ~classmate
Reply
:iconsethness:
You say "Evolution neither proves nor disproves Christianity." That's only partly true.

Evolution is the latest in hundreds of years' worth of hard science which Christianity has opposed, then grudgingly weaaseled out of opposing.

Christians' long claims of creationsim and opposition to Evolution are as much a revelation of Christian faith's silliness as when the Church opposed Galileo for many hundreds of years.

The huge inaccuracies in physical science which Europeans clung to for centuries-- geocentrism, flat earth, heaven as a real place in the sky, floodgates in the sky letting down water we call "rain"-- all these we consider ridiculous myths today, but were strongly supported by the learned members of the church. They learned WRONGLY, and learned untruths, pinning much of their proof on what they read literally in the Babble.

The Babble is, piece by piece, showing itself to be a long list of untruths (and a confused, unhealthy moral compass).

Modern Cretins' continual retreat into midrashes, rationalizations, and claims that the Babble is a moral guide filled with stories, not intended as hard facts about the physical world, is a last-minute unwilling RETREAT from the obvious conclusion that an objective observer would make: the Babble has no more truth in it than any other religion or creation MYTH.

Evolution points out the huge flaw in the cretin belief system's central premise: believing without proof.

So, is evolution alone proof that Christianity is false, as a whole? Nope, but it's one more important erosion in people's faith, and one more reason to look at religious epistemology and LAUGH at its inadequacy.

--
~AtheistsClub ~brights #M-C-Escher-Style #Surreal-Artists
Doubt and objectivity are essential. Without them, experience merely reinforces prejudice. Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Give a man an Icthys, and he annoys for life.
Reply
:iconsethness:
You're ready to discuss, but are you ready to discuss your notions objectively?
The xcuse-making evident in saying "Oh, we didn't mean 7 days LITERALLY" should be pretty obvious. It's quite evident that Christians who try to make babble...errr, bible... "truths" fit reality are retrofitting and backpedalling. It'd be a lot more convincing if the bible contained literal truths, scientific realities like "round earth", "no floodgates in the sky causing rainfall", "Heliocentric solar system", and so on... but no. Face it...really, truly face it: the babble is a flawed work of men's imagination and their understanding of the world at the time. It does not contain "revelations" in any sense, failing on even the simplest level to extend man's knowledge of the world around him beyond his flawed understanding at the time.

The babble cannot even be self-consistent in things like Jesus' ancestry: the babble contains at least two ancestries differing widely in the names and number (one is double the length of the other) of ancestors tying Jesus to other biblical figures.

The artificial distinction between "micro evolution" and "macro evolution" is a ludicrous product of fevered minds who won't face the simple reality that if 2+2=4 then 2000+2000=4000. As for whether "macro" evolution is proven, it most certainly is... by a fossil record that shows gradual change and diversification over aeons.

Please don't pretend that your beliefs are convincing. They failed to convince most Jews and other contemporaries while Jesus was alive; there is no great flaming signature of a judeo-cretin god appearing in the skies.

I'm offended at the obvious nonsense that comes from the pulpits, particularly the silly claims that belief, faith, and childlike sheeplike behavior hold some kind of value that makes them worth more than objectivity, doubt, and intense application of the scientific method.

In short, "don't be silly."

--
~AtheistsClub ~brights #M-C-Escher-Style #Surreal-Artists
Doubt and objectivity are essential. Without them, experience merely reinforces prejudice. Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Give a man an Icthys, and he annoys for life.
Reply
:iconellakey:
*EllaKey Dec 6, 2011  Hobbyist Writer
Ah, I see that you try and offend me by calling the Bible babble? I'm curious why you decided that name for it.

Now let me look through this again. I usually skim through to get the main theme of what one is saying then read through again and try to take it point by point, if it isn't too much a bother to you.

Okay, so your first problem with what I said is my example of the literal/figurative creation week problem? I know I've read on this somewhere, but I cannot quite remember which books. And a lot of my books are at home. Let me check my Bible and see what the annotations say really quick, ok? Okay, I got it. There's an article in here entitled "Are the Days of Genesis to Be Interpeted Literally?" by a Jed Cabal. It short, it talks about how the problem is mostly for old/young earth creationists. It really doesn't bother theistic evolutionists, which was why I was hoping this wouldn't spark an arguement but merely serve as an example. Anyway, the biggest problem for the literal week of creation is that the Hebrew word that gets translated into "day" here (yom) gets used in a bunch of different ways throughout Genesis. We're not retrofitting (there are still plenty of people who believe in the literal week, and I'm mostly indifferent. I mean, we're here, right? That's the biggest thing to me.). It's just a matter of interpetation for each individual.

Let's see, what's your next problem? Scientific facts in the Bible? Well, sorry to say, there doesn't seem to be much solely dedicated to science (though here's an interesting link [link]), otherwise I would've ferreted them out on my own by now. I am training in the medical field after all and am fascinated by the sciences. The Bible is more of a histroy book, a love letter, and, most obviously, a life manual for believers. How do you mean flawed? There is more and more proof that there was a man named Jesus who believed himself to be the Son of God, there are archeological findings that prove that the Bible is historically accurate, giving it a strong foundation, and the morales and lessons in the Bible (if you so desire to just ingore Jesus entirely, which I assume you do), are ways that improve the standard of living for yourself and others. In none of these ways is the Bible flawed. As for extending man's knowledge of the world around him? I must ask you, what is your basis in science? The root of it all? For me, the basis is a loving creator who enacted rules for the universe for us to discover and give thanks to Him for. Without him, life would be a meaningless chaotic, if life existed at all (and of course, I believe it wouldn't).

Your next problem is his ancestory? Well, now I'm a little amused. Mostly cause I've heard this multiple times. Let me find this scholar who states it better than me...crap, that book is too big to find quickly. I'll go back to my Bible then. You're referring to the genealogies in Matthew and Luke, right? Well, there are multiple reasons for the differences. One focuses on bloodline, one focuses on royalty. Matthew gave the legal line of descent, while Luke focused on a more physical line. And both go through Joseph of course, as he was the man. Jesus was his descendent legally through adoption. In either case, the important thing was that he came from the blood of David, to fulfill God's promise that the Messiah would be a descendent of David. I think you could do a bit of research on how geneologies were organized then. Josephus would be a good place to start. He was really into political strife.

You're third complaint is my distinction of micro and macroevolution. I must say, I've heard this before. When you show me how mutations of the same DNA, not changing in complexity at all and possibly even simplfying it further can create a totally new, more complex species within the span of a few life cycles so some of the changes don't kill the offspring before it can reproduce, then I'll consider it. Show me your missing links as well, and I might consider it. But this doesn't affect the Bible at all, as God could easily work through evolution to create what he desires.

My beliefs may not convince you, and I'm certainly not going to throw my Bible at you--I like it too much you see--but I must ask you this: how is it that out of all the religions going on at the time, all the important kings and rulers of that era, that Jesus's name stands out above all others. I mean, have you heard of Josephus before I mentioned him? How about Appollonius?
As for the God's own chosen people, my heart aches for them, especially those who still wait for the Messiah. They didn't accept Jesus because he wasn't what they expected. They wanted a conqueror, a hero! Not a servant, a simple carpetner. And many were too settled into their ways to change. But many weren't as well.

Faith like a child does not mean that you must behave like a child. I don't. I study for medical school, I read many books by many people, from all walks of faith, and I don't mind getting my foot put in my mouth at times if I learn from the experience. I'm nowhere near perfect of course. No one is. We're human after all. But I take some offense to being told I have childlike sheeplike behavoir. Is Issac Newton a sheep? And yet he said that there must be a divine being. And this guy figured out gravity!

--
My icon was a point commission from *Darqx.
"I'm a supporter of date extensions regardless of context." ~classmate
Reply
:iconsethness:
You wrote "Ah, I see that you try and offend me by calling the Bible babble?" I call it babble because it IS babble-- and the phonetic similarity to "bible" is punny. If it offends you enough to get you to think objectively, that's just a side benefit.

You wrote "Okay, so your first problem with what I said is my example of the literal/figurative creation week problem?" That's just an example of the overall babble-defense technique which is at the heart of your problem. You and christians of the past have allowed an ever-mounting heap of rationalizations, excuses (such as the feeble "Oh, it's not science, it's history and a love note!"), reinterpretations, and so on to prop up an ever more evidently ridiculous set of beliefs. Rather than bringing yourself to a neutral, objective, humble point from which you can judge whether the babble is a whole lotta hooey, you're just working on defending those beliefs with a high wall of denial.

You wrote "My beliefs may not convince you, and I'm certainly not going to throw my Bible at you--I like it too much you see--but I must ask you this: how is it that out of all the religions going on at the time, all the important kings and rulers of that era, that Jesus's name stands out above all others. I mean, have you heard of Josephus before I mentioned him? How about Appollonius?" OK, let's look at that "proof" more objectively. Jesus failed to bring Christianity to the world-- failed even amongst the Jews, and later has failed spectacularly as Islam is the numerically dominant Judeo-cretin religion today.
As for the christian god being the most successful at the time, let's ask ourselves: "Ever hear of Buddha? Predates Jesus by 500 years, and buddhism was certainly more popular than christianity when Jesus was alive.

How about Apollo and Zeus? Ever heard of them? They were more popular during Jesus' lifetime than Jesus was. Christianity only got a boost 300 years later when the ROMAN GOVERNMENT was looking for a religion to replace the fractious polytheism they had at the time-- they wanted a single government, and a single god to give that government the stamp of authenticity. That's cynical politicking, not the truth of one religion or another, that let one expire while the other got the endorsement of government.

When it comes right down to it, the roughly 1/3 of the total tales that got final approval to be put in the bible are still so internally inconsistent about the historical person "Jesus" that there's a great deal of debate about what's real and what's storytellers' embellishment (the non-magical elements, I mean-- the magical elements are all hooey, of course, just like Santa and the Easter Bunny).

As for the babble being a "life manual" --- some kind of moral guide-- I invite you to find a book on Amazon.com that explores how the babble has been used to defend BOTH sides of countless historical and moral battles, from slavery to racism to protestant-versus-catholic, from "loving god" to "jealous and angry, frightening god". The babble, as a moral compass, is a hopeless self-contradictory mess.

You're so wrapped up in your cocoon of unreasoned belief that you PITY Jews for not accepting YOUR religion. It doesn't occur to you that within the framework of your religion, your god should not be allowing people to live and die without receiving some definite proof that yours is the only true flavor of religion.

...And the same defect exists in so many religions. You many religions fail to take in the reality and logical implication that your religion isn't the only, nor even the most popular, and CERTAINLY not the "provable" religion.

Frankly, the more you beat your drum without listening to the other drums, the sillier you sound.

--
~AtheistsClub ~brights #M-C-Escher-Style #Surreal-Artists
Doubt and objectivity are essential. Without them, experience merely reinforces prejudice. Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Give a man an Icthys, and he annoys for life.
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